Andrea Rossi interview

Andrea Rossi: The Science of Cold Fusion & LENR | The Energy Catalyzer (E-CAT)

Here is the complete transcript of the program on West Coast Truth with the inventor and entrepreneur, Andrea Rossi.

RS: Andrea Rossi, welcome to the West Coast Truth.

AR: Thank you.

RS: Andrea, give us an idea of who you are, and your background and education.

AR: My education, when I was a student, has been of philosophy and engineering, and I began when I was 23 years old to design and produce a plant to make energy with biomasses like organic waste etc, etc, and I grew up making plants to make energy and to try to resolve the problem of pollution. I got attention in this field. So basically I grow up engineering plants to make a pollution control and biomass operated power plants. This is basically my background and I started to work with low energy nuclear reactions (LENR), a definition that I prefer very much to the definition cold fusion, because I think is more proper to call this kind of effects LENR and I started working on them in 1990 after the demos, press conference of Fleischmann and Pons. I started trying to reproduce their effect, I had not been able to, but the spark had ignited the higher the point, and the higher is going on. After many years of work we got some results.

RS: Well, you are an inventor, you are an entrepreneur and you haven’t just invented the e-cat, you also invented a process convert organic waste into oil. How was that experience?

AR: Well, that experience has been good and bad, good at the beginning because we made a refinery that was working very well, then it has gone badly, and I got a tremendous series of problems from that. I would like to say that how this story has gone is resumed quite well on the website that I made for this purpose, which is www.ingandrearossi.com, because, you know, the situation has been very complex, and since many times happened that some hostile party takes out the big problems that I had in those years. It has a period between 1990-1999/2000. During those 10 years I had to come up with programs. All this story has been resumed in particular on that website, and since I am making this job I am not very happy to revive what I passes through in that period. In any case, to make short the story that goes on in the years during which the criminal organization in Italy decided to enter the business of wastes may had to kill one way or the other any kind of competitor. They assassinated my character making actions that made me go on newspapers for crimes that I never committed, never made. In the end I have been cleared. In the meantime, the factory that I had had gone bankrupt. This is the story.

RS: Was it not Gomorrah that took over…

AR: Exactly. If you read Gomorrah, you understand perfectly who were my enemies.

RS: Yes, these are people that dump waste cans into the ocean.

AR: Yes, exactly. You consider that the waste that I created when I had Petrol Dragon were the kind of wastes that, after my elimination have been taken from the heroes that you can read in the very good book of Saveiro. So, this is the situation. I am not very happy to talk about this because I lost the work of 3 generations of my family in that area, but I survived and I have been put in prison 4 years for crimes that I have not committed, and in the end, I have been cleared, made free. During this time I have prepared for very good days on the work on low energy nuclear reactions, so, in the end, maybe God wanted this to happen just to make this possible. Who knows, because if I had Petrol Dragon, I had not have made this work. So, from this perspective, I remember the old Indians say: “When something bad happens to you, don’t be sure it is bad, and when something good happens to you, don’t be sure it is good.”

RS: So it is interesting that they accused you of dumping environmental toxins when, in fact, your enemies are the ones that dump toxins into the Mediterranean.

AR: Yes, because the trick has been this: I had a refinery where I had the oil made and raw material to make the oil deriving from wastes, and one day they arrived, and, you know, there was very much corruption. So, many authorities were corrupted and they arrived and said that my job was not regular, because since my oil was derived from wastes, it had to be considered waste. And so my customers would have beneficiated to be authorized to treat waste. Of course, my customers, just about oil, not wastes, and so everything has been stopped, blocked. At one point when they blocked the sales, they accused me of something that was not possible to be solved. At that point they said: “If it is not possible to sell your oil, than this means it is waste.” And so you can put a clandestine deposit of waste in your factory. But they were not waste. I could not sell because they forbid the sale, saying that my customers to use the oil had to have permissions that did not exist. So, this has been a nightmare.

RS: Does not water go through a water treatment process. By their logic, drinking tap water is a toxic substance.

AR: When they destroyed our company, the wastes have been put in clandestine dumps and they polluted the tap water, etc, etc.

RS: At Petrol Dragon, you were producing 20 tons of oil every day.

AR: Yes, it is true, all which was sold to customers that used it. They were very glad because it was very cheap. It cost half the price of the usual oil and they were glad, but one day the authorities have stopped their factories too, saying: “You are using a product that is derived from wastes, then it is a waste. So you have to have an authorization from a company that makes waste treatment.” Of course, they were wrong and this is why all has been stopped, etc, etc. You will find all the particulars in www.ingandrearossi.com

RS: Andrea, what is your motivation for creating alternative energy? Is it for science, is it for financial gain, what is your motivation?

AR: My motivation is that I believe in this work. I always work in alternative energies, because since I was young I thought that this was going to be the worst problem to resolve for the survival of mankind. So, I focused on this and when Fleischmann and Pons made the press conference I was very attracted from that. They had a merit. I kept independently from how was going their process from a technologic point of view, but they had the merit that they indicated towards the path of the jungle that was possible to walk through. Then we have taken different conclusions, different systems to walk through that jungle, or problems, but probably if they did not exist, probably I could have not the idea to go ahead with this kind of technology. This is a merit that must be recognized to them.

RS: Well, we will go through the science of Fleischmann and Pons’s discoveries a little bit later. Here is the major question, the million-dollar question: If energy cannot be created or destroyed, this is the first law of thermodynamics, then how can the e-cat produce free energy? As I understand, you can turn 400 W into 15.000 W with the e-cat. This is my ultimate question, but what is the basic science behind the low energy nuclear reactions?

AR: This is a very good question, but I want at once to answer the first part of your question. You mean the first principle of thermodynamics, and the second principle of thermodynamics which can be resumed in the saying that nothing can be created, nothing can be destroyed. But, the concept is much wider than how this correct principle can be considered, because, you know, you have the possibility to apply this principle to the thermochemical reactions, and in this case, you have to respect the rules of thermochemical reactions. But, if you apply this principle to the nuclear reactions, in this case, this principle is valid, nothing is created, nothing is destroyed, but matter is turned into energy. To turn matter into energy is not to create something from nothing, it is to make a conversion, in this case, you respect the principle that nothing can be created and nothing can be destroyed. It is exactly why nothing can be destroyed, but when you eliminate matter, you don’t destroy it, you just turn it into energy. This is the answer to the first part of your question. Let me tell you this very simple equation: 1 gram of mass, it doesn’t matter which kind of mass, any kind of mass, 1 gram of mass when turned into energy produces 23.000 MWh, or if you prefer, 23 millions of KWh .If you think of this, if 1 gram is 23 million KWh, you can calculate if you want, how much mass decrease you have if you produce 10, 20 or 1000 KWh. You consume millions of grams, you consume petagrams, and this is exactly what counts. In our reactors, we put out charges about 50 grams of matter, but in 6 months before changing the refill, we consume a very, very small amount, because consider if we go through simple numbers, if I made 10 KWh/hour I will make 240 KWh/day. 240KWh/day is 2400KWh per 10 days, which means 75 MWh per month, 75.OOO KWh/month, so let’s say, 1000 MWh/year. Since 1 gram makes 23.000 MW this means that with 1 gram of matter an e-cat can produce 10KWh/hour for 23 years.

RS: So this means that an e-cat will have to be charged after a certain period of time.

AR: We recharge every 6 months because we prefer to control the charges, etc, but again, with 1 gram you can go on 23 years, but we refill every 6 months. So this explains, I am just answering with numbers to your preliminary questions.

RS: Andrea, what is the science for the audience? What the basic science for the low energy nuclear reactions?

AR: Well, this is a rather difficult question.

RS: You have as much time as you need to answer the question.

AR: Yes. Inside the nuclear atoms there are particles that are protons, neutrons and there are many other things that are what they are, you too, a particular quantic situation. It is not easy to explain simply what this means. So, maybe I will say stupidities, but I have to keep it simple, I suppose.

RS: As better as you can.

AR: Yes, I will do what I can, but consider that I will say things that, to be very simple, also explained in the way that is very superficial and there are necessary not quite. But just to give you an idea.
The nuclear atoms are a bunch of small grains of different things. Some of these things are things that we say, respect the exclusion principle. So, we say, that they cannot exist in the same time, in the same moment, in the same place. Other things can exist in the same time, in the same position, in the same place. The first ones are called fermions, the last ones are called bosons because Fermi has discovered the first ones, and Bose, an Indian physicist, has discovered the second. But in this bunch of grains, every particle is what it is because it has a particular character, which depends on the amount of energy it is able to make up. When this particles are displaced, or some external agents make them change their energetic production they change nature, because basically, when they change their quantic status, which means when they change the way they produce energy and the amount of energy that they produce they change nature, they become something different. For example, they become gamma rays. They are turned into a form of energy which is called protons, and these are the gamma rays. So what happens inside, for example, from what I can say, what happens inside an e-cat. It happens this: we force the proton, the nucleus of an atom of hydrogen, which is a proton, to enter at very high pressures, concentrating, focusing all his mass in an extremely small surface.
Now, listen carefully, the pressure is a force that depends not only on the mass that makes the pressure, but also on the width of the surface on which this mass focuses its weight. So you can reach very high values of pressure, not without the necessity to increase the mass, but you can do it reducing the surface upon which the mass, the object focuses its mass. This way we force the atoms that are in the surrounding of the hydrogen inside the micro gates of nickel grains we reduce the surface upon which they focus the stuffing pressure, so the stuffing pressure that can be, for example, 1 psi (pound/square inch). If instead of distributing its action of 1 psi focuses only on the decreasing surface up to 1 square Nano meter, at that point the vary of the pressure increases exponentially. At this point, these grains go so close that their quantic status can change and they emit the gamma rays.
Alright, I have not understood what I said, but I hope you have understood better than me.

RS: I doubt that I understand better than you, but… Would it be fair to say that cold fusion is essentially Muon-catalyzed fusion?

AR: No.

RS: It’s not the same?

AR: No, because Muon are particles with a life too short to do something and very difficult to produce. In my view, because I must honestly tell you, that there are many very different theories. We have taken out theory out of the experience of working e-cats and I have quite a precise idea of the theoretical basis of this effect. This is an effect.

RS: I’m sorry; did you just say that you don’t really understand it?

AR: No, no, I said the contrary. I’m sorry, this is my English. We made up a very precise idea about the source of the effect, and it has nothing to do with the virtual alpha cause. It is something much more solid.

RS: I would like to go through some of the methods that have been used in the past to produce low energy nuclear reactions, and I may as well start with Fleischmann and Pons, when they used an electrolysis of D2O.

AR: Yes, D2O is the heavy water. Deuterium exists in nature. I don’t remember how much but the 0 point something of the sea water is deuterium. In fact, D2O is extracted by distillation from the sea water. It is one of the systems of producing it. Probably, now they have other systems, but during the Second World War heavy water was extracted from the sea water. Also, there is probably some D2O in the water that you drink every day, but is in traces. Basically, D2O is still H2O because H means Hydrogen and deuterium is hydrogen, is an isotope of hydrogen that instead of having one proton and one electron dancing around, it has one proton and one neutron attached to it, and one electron dancing around. This makes it, of course, heavier, slightly more than twice, because the neutron is slightly heavier than the proton, but basically, deuterium has the weight double of protium, what we usually call hydrogen. So, both are hydrogen, D2O is still H2O, but the H instead of being protium, which is the common hydrogen without a neutron, is deuterium because it contains a neutron, “deu” comes from, like in “bi” which means 2, because it weighs 2 instead of 1.

RS: By the way, the answer is 0, 0156% of all natural occurring hydrogen.

AR: Yes, Yes.

RS: SO, what are your thoughts on these methods used to produce to low energy nuclear reactions, so starting with the Fleischmann-Pons as opposed to fuse salt proton conduction, low energy ions, ion bombardments?

AR: You are asking me about the science of Fleischmann and Pons?

RS: Well, many have claimed to have produced energy using cold fusion methods.

AR: The original method which has been used by Fleischmann and Pons was electrolysis. Basically, you had carefully made by palladium, an ion made by platinum, and you know that palladium has a very high affinity for hydrogen, and probably everyone knows, but an ion is an electrode charted with negative electricity, so that charging an electrode made of palladium with negative electricity, you combine the fact that palladium is a sponge with very high affinity for hydrogen, with the fact that hydrogen is positive, one string of electrode, because the proton is positive, and even if there is a neutron, in the case of deuterium, the charge is still positive, because the neutron is neutral, and so this is the process of electrolysis. During their experiments, they have found that the concentration of hydrogen has been so tight that a strong exceptional heat has been produced, and so this has allowed these 2 scientists to think that fusion had occurred between the deuterium nucleons forming helium, because when 2 protons bind we have an atom with the atomic number 2, which is helium.

RS: Have you replicated their {ed. note Fleischman & Pons} experiment?

AR: I tried, in fact many times, but I had not been able to. But at that point I was convinced that if that myth of the walls was very difficult to replicate, there had to be another method. And I started my research that is going on until I manage to make an apparatus that work considerably, because at a certain point we were planning not to let back into doubts, but to have a more precise idea.

RS: Now, there are many, many methods which people use to fuse the deuterium: fuse salt, protein conduction, low energy ions, ion bombardment, gas reactions. Are you able to tell us what process you used to fuse the deuterium, or is that proprietary?

AR: Actually, I do not use at all deuterium. Our process is completely different. We have abandoned deuterium because at one point I got the condition that it could not work, and for many reasons that are much more complicated. But I prefer just to use protium, the very common hydrogen and I must tell you that we do not use hydrogen gas, we have invented a patent, a molecule that has better the property to attract big amounts of hydrogen in solid form. So, at that point we use nickel, we use this tablet and we use catalyzers. But until the patent is granted, we cannot publish, but in our charge, we have nickel, catalyzers and these micro tablets that contain high amounts of hydrogen. And these tablets are made in such a way that, when we raise the temperature by an electric resistance, the hydrogen becomes free from the tablets and becomes gas. At that point, we work on the pressure, as I said before, and we get the effect of low energy gamma rays emission. When the operation is turned off, the free hydrogen in gas state is recaptured from the sponge which reacts with the hydrogen getting it again, and we lose only those atoms of hydrogen that are turned into something else. This is basically what we make, we don’t use deuterium, we don’t use hydrogen in gas state at the beginning of the process, and we do not any kind of electrolysis, because my sensation has been, and I am convinced, that in many cases palladium is a strong sponge for hydrogen, and electrolysis is too weak of a force to obtain results. Maybe I am wrong, because I know that very good scientists in the world are still working with this process, maybe in the future they will make something useful, but so far they did not.

RS: Fleischmann and Pons device required the PD-cathode to be charged for a month. Is it true that the e-cat can start in real time?

AR: Yes, it is true. The way it works is completely different; we do not make an electrolysis. We turn on an electric resistance that activates the reactor, raising temperature, pressure, etc, and for the e-cat to be activated it takes about an hour, and after one hour it is perfectly in equilibrium. It is a dry reaction, and this reaction between hydrogen and metal and catalyzers are absolutely not in electrolytic theory. We do not use at all palladium, we absolutely do not use the principle of the palladium capture hydrogen electrolytic theory.

RS: Is it why you theoretically produced it for such a low cost?

AR: Yes, the e-cat is made with very common materials, and now we are preparing a completely robotized production line to make extremely economic cuts, so basically, we will put the e-cats on the market, at 10 kW power e-cat at a price that will be between 600-900 $.

RS: Does it store energy? Is it AC or DC, like a battery?

AR: No, it is AC, we work with AC. The resistance that drives the e-cat is AC, and, of course, consider that what we are producing now is just thermal power. In order to produce electrical power we must overcome some technical problems that we still have, but it will be resolved within a year.

RS: Yes, this is an important fact to acknowledge. At the moment, the e-cat is producing heat, and heat is a form of energy, but the trick here is to convert the heat into a usable form of energy.

AR: Yes, that is correct. The heat is in itself a usable form of energy, because maybe in California or other areas where there is always warm you don’t need it, but if you go to Boston in winter you understand that also heat is a form of energy that it is usable, and to produce heat at a price which is much cheaper than normal is useful, but you are right when you say that it is extremely important to resolve the problems that we have converting heat into electric energy. The reason why we have not succeeded in doing it so far is because we cannot heat up the e-cat, for now, beyond the limit of 120 degrees, so we are not able to produce steam at a temperature higher than 120 degrees Celsius, which is about 240, or so, degrees Fahrenheit. And we cannot go beyond this limit for now because the production becomes unstable, but we have already made strong progress, and for the industrial plans we have already got to 251 degrees Celsius, so 500 degrees Fahrenheit, which is the inferior limit to apply to bind and make a current cycle producing electricity in efficiency around 30%, which is acceptable.

RS: Rossi, how do you plan to turn heat into electric energy for the e-cat?

AR: This is a good question, a key question. We want to manage to get the temperature to rise up to the point of 251 degrees Celsius because at this level we can use standard turbines made by Siemens, with which the steam rotating the wheels of the turbine move the alternator and produce electric energy. This will be the main path that we will go through in the industrial field. In concern to the small, domestic plants, it is much more difficult, because the current cycle is much more complex. It needs condensers, it needs separate parts, it is very complicated and it is very difficult to miniaturize in a domestic plant, so we are trying to find other conversion systems. There are many: there is the Rankine cycle engine system, there is the Stirling engine system, there is the thermo-electric possibility, there is the direct conversion of gamma rays into electricity, or we will be able to miniaturize the current cycle. There are many paths and we are going through all of them.

RS: Andrea, what is your opinion on the current state of science, in general?

AR: It is very complex to answer. We must make many distinctions. Science, in general, is developing tremendously and exponentially. The computers, the high-tech revolution, the software of the IP technology, the changes in medicine, the life expectancy of mankind which has greatly improved in the developed countries, now it is in the 90s and 50 years ago it was in the 70s. But there are fields in which science has encountered some bumps in the road. All in all, science is developing greatly, but there is something that should be improved, and that is the utilization of science, to include science development in the necessity of the quality of life of mankind, and the safety of mankind. This, I think, has to be worked out, because I cannot understand how there are billions of people in the world living in conditions close to death, for the lack of food. So, if we have a science hyper-developed, and we have a people that die of hunger at 10 hours distance of Europe means that science has problems.

RS: Do you think the science of cold fusion, the low energy nuclear reactions is being suppressed, that there is a conspiracy against you?

AR: No, if there are any conspiracies, they should be proven with evidence. I have no evidence. There is no conspiracy at all, less than ever against me. I am working very well, and doing very well. Some resistance is the normal consequence of technological revolution and this is not a conspiracy, this is normal. The low energy nuclear reactions since 1989 has not been put on the market, not because of some conspiracy, but because there were no valid products to put on the market. If you put a product that works on the market, there is no conspiracy that can bind you. People buy it.

RS: Have you ever had concerns for your safety, your personal safety? Many feel that Eugene Mallove was murdered by big oil.

AR: In God I trust. This is a matter for God, not for me. I have to work and do my duty.

RS: Do you believe in free energy? Can energy be free?

AR: My friend, in nature do not exist free means. Free does not exists. Only competition exists. Anything that you do costs because anything you do needs work, anything you do needs raw materials. You know, even if you breathe, you consume oxygen, so nothing is free. If by free you mean a balance of matter, then it is impossible, it is against the laws of nature, because anything you do consumes something. There isn’t a thing that happens in physics, in chemistry, even in fantasy. When you produce something with your imagination, you consume sugars, because without sugars your brain could not work, so even dreams are not free. If you mean free from an economic point of view, with no price, then this is a political choice, it is not something that can be given by nature or my mankind, of forcing the physics and chemistry’s rules to get something free. If a government decides that their people can have free houses, then that is a political choice.

RS: How do you roll out this product in a responsible way? We see incredible amounts of corruption, we talked about it earlier. How do you shield the e-cat technology from big oil, corrupt politicians, corporate interests, so that consumers, so that humanity can better benefit from this hopeful technology?

AR: This is a good question. First of all, I want to put apart any fantasy about plots or obstacles. You know, there is competition. Yes, this technology is very useful and we are working in the direction so we do not accept to sell this technology to a new entity that can open any compartment. This has been our condition, and this could be this shield that you say. If something is maturing now, and will try to resist and compete without respecting the rules of the competition we will have to fight. When we will see what to fight for, and who the enemies are, then we can fight.

RS: So you are saying that you will take each battle step by step?

AR: Exactly. Think about what happened with the cars. When the first cars were produced at the end of the 19th century, people said, well, but how can we go through meadows and parks and forests, but brick by brick and step by step, ways and highways have been built, and the cars have been unblocked. I think that if you manufacture a product that is useful and competitive, people will decide it if it really is useful or not, because the people are the judge. Think about the computers and their beginning. When Bill Gates and Paul Allen went to the banks, they lost, and people said that the idea of computers is ridiculous.

RS: Who is your biggest inspiration?

AR: My biggest inspiration is Einstein and the relativity theory and also the phenomenology of Husserl, Edmund Husserl, a philosophy that teaches you never to accept the way it is commonly to be, but you have to start from the beginning assuming everything is wrong and you have to rebuild everything. I have found a strong bind between these 2 things. This has been the lecture that has most inspired me.

RS: I want to talk about the unit itself that maybe sometimes soon will be stored on the shelves and people will go out and purchase it, just like people went out and they purchased the micro wave when that first came out, and somewhat like the micro wave people will not understand the technology behind it but what they will understand is what can it do for me? If people can save money, if people can lower their energy costs because we know these are on the rise, then the product will be successful.

AR: You are absolutely correct.

RS: So, what should the people expect? How is the e-cat going to look like, what will be the size of the unit, things of this nature?

AR: The first generation of the e-cat that should hit the market between 1 year and 1 year and a half, depending the amount of time that the certificatory will take before gives us the safety certifications. About the product: think of a small box, which is a 12/12/4 inch and weighs about 15 pounds and this will be put close to any existing heater, of any house, and you know that these heaters have a line of water that goes inside and makes the connection with the radiators. The e-cat will have a line that instead of going in the radiators will go in the kitchen. It will heat up the water, and then the water will go the radiators. The heaters will realize that the water is already hot and it won’t use fuel to heat it, so you will save fuel. Basically, the philosophy of the e-cat has been the same as the Microsoft processing systems that can be put in any existing computer in the world. The same way, you can put the e-cat near any heating systems, with a small attachment and you just save money. Saving fuel means saving money. The design has been made nice; all the controls will be made automatically, and it will also be possible to turn it on and off by telephone, by mobile phone with a system that is normally used today for modern heating systems. That’s it.

RS: So this can be used as a central system in a home?

AR: Yes.

RS: So, people much in the same manner they do now, they simply plug something into a wall. That will in the same way, in concerns with the infrastructure that leads to the e-cat in the utility room?

AR: Exactly.

RS: Ok, let me bring this back: Is this unit going to be for heat, or for electrical energy?

AR: This will be only for heat. The first generation will be only for heat, but it will be fitted to be extended to the electric generators once we will be ready to supply also the electric generators. And also, the price of the e-cat will be somewhere between 600 and 1000 $. And it will not be a substitution for the normal heater. It will be an attachment to any existing heater.

RS: How much could the average American household expect to save with of the first generation e-cats?

AR: This depends on the geographic area, because it depends on how much heat it consumes. Of course, if you live in Boston, you consume much more heat than if you live in Miami Beach. In the United States the climatic situation is very different from place to place, but I can say that in Boston, you can pay back the amount in matter of one year. In Miami Beach there is another option that will be possible, because with the heat you can also make air conditioning. So we are working on making the e-cat useful not only in places where heating is required, but also in place where air conditioning is needed. When using the e-cat for the purpose of air conditioning, the pay back will be between 1 year and 2 years. So basically, it will make people save around 1.000 $/year on average.

RS: Is the first generation e-cat patented?

AR: Yes. We have a patent pending. We have, actually, many patent pending because we have patents that made different things. We have a patent pending in the U.S and we have a patent pending in Europe, and we have a patent that has already been accepted in Italy. In both the U.S and in Europe we have many patents pending and all very important.

RS: So, then my understanding is that the first generation e-cat is solved. These are no more issues with that. It’s ready for production within a very short period of time, but the second generation e-cat, still requires more research.

AR: You are absolutely correct.

RS: How are you going to overcome the public fears of a device that uses nuclear technology? I mean the average person when you use the word nuclear recoils instantly, simply scared of it. This is, of course, due to propaganda, but they will instantly think of Fukushima, of science fiction movies. How do you change the perception of the public, how do you overcome their fears of nuclear energy?

AR: This is a very good question. This will be a matter of communication. It will be necessary, but I have an infinite trust in the smartness and the intelligence of people. They will understand in matter of minutes, not of days, the difference between something that uses radioactive materials and something that uses nickel and hydrogen, and they will understand sharply, I think, the amount of energy that is inside an e-cat in front of the energy of a nuclear plant, is like a flee in front of the whale, and we do not use radioactive material, we do not produce radioactive material, etc., etc. The thing is that to understand these things, a smart person will need a few minutes, and I have complete trust in the intelligence of people. Of course, there will be a duty for us to make the right communication, and there is a situation that we have to resolve, and that is the certification. The e-cat will be certificated will it will be sold. Certification is thought exclusively on the safety issues. So, once a product is properly certificated, there is a basis to make correct communication. This is what I think will resolve the problem, there will be amount communication. Anyway, the issue that you have touched is very important; I bet on the intelligence of people.

RS: Now, when we talk about e-cat, we talk about the energy on the level of a single home. How big can this be, what scale can this reach, can we heat entire cities using this technology?

AR: Yes, and in a very safe way because our big plant is just assemblies of modules of more e-cats put in a series and in parallels. So that, if the least module is 0, and you have 1000 modules, 0×1000 is still 0 and I also want to tell you one thing that is very important about the safety. We have something that the certificatory has understood very well. We have an intrinsic safety in this toy, because it works only if nicked is in powder. It can work only if you have powder nickel, and inside the core of nickel where we start the production of heat, we have a temperature which is close to the melting point of nickel. If we have an overheating of the e-cat, the temperature goes off the melting point of nickel. In this moment the operation of the e-cat is stopped immediately, becomes you have no more raw material. It is like you take off the gas from the tank of a car. It stops the exact second when no more gas arrives to the engine. This is the intrinsic safety system of the e-cat.

RS: where do you rank low energy nuclear reactions technology in comparison to solar power, wind power, nuclear energy, the conventional forms of energy now and some of the alternative ones? Where do we rank with your technology?

AR: I think that it is very difficult to answer to this because it has not yet hit the mass market and it is very difficult. What I think is that it is not as much a matter of rank, but more a matter of integration. I think all the energy sources have to be integrated.

RS: I want to clarify my question. When I say ranking, I guess I’m asking you about efficiency. We don’t want to waste out time with things like wind or solar, if they’re not as productive, if they’re not as efficient as the cold fusion or the low energy nuclear reaction technology. So the question, I suppose, is where does it rank in that sense compared to the other technologies?

AR: I understand. Well, the answer in this case is very simple. All the other energy sources are chemical reactions. This is an effect that turns matter into energy, so when I tell you that 1 gram of matter makes 23.000 MWh the issue of efficiency is over.

RS: Where can people learn more about you technology, more about yourself?

AR: Well, I think the simpler website is www.ecat.com.

RS: So, I mean you have many websites, I’ve seen that, so we’ll link over.

AR: www.ecat.com is the website that I think is more appropriate for what concerns the e-cat as a product. If somebody wants to participate, I usually talk on the blog of the Journal of Nuclear Physics, which is www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com and there is the login, and the blog, and there I discuss and talk with people about what is going on daily. I think these are the 2 main, but there are many of them and again, if somebody wants to know the story of the troubles, there is www.ingandrearossi.com. That’s it.

RS: is there anything that I haven’t asked and you would like to say to the audience?

AR: No, I think this was perfect. This was a very good and truthful interview.

RS: Andrea Rossi, it has been an honor to have you on the program.

AR: This has been my honor to be here with you and with you public. A am very glad, thank you very much.

RS: Andrea Rossi, thank you very much.

Andrea Rossi, on the West Coast Truth.

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